What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Uninterruptible Power intelligent Supply Module

What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby mariana » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:37 am

Hi

According to the manual, the working temperature of the LiPo battery is from -10 to 60 Celsius degrees.
What happens when the temperature exceed 60 Celsius degrees?

Battery stops charging but the UPiS could still work with the cable power?
Or can RPI+UPiS start up when the cable power turns on?

Best regards!
mariana
 
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby Pimaster » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:06 pm

mariana wrote:Hi

According to the manual, the working temperature of the LiPo battery is from -10 to 60 Celsius degrees.
What happens when the temperature exceed 60 Celsius degrees?


Hi,
Usually you have an explosion, fire and smoke. So I strongly recommend you to use a special protective dresses, in order to be alive after that
:D


But seriously, we have the following procedure implemented

the following steps has been implemented (always please be sure the have the latest version)

Battery is charged if temperature is higher than 0 degs and smaller than 55 degs
if temperature is higher or lower charger stops automatically
if temperature is higher than 65 degs you will receive the following message
"System Temperature higher than 65 C - UPiS Protection Activated"

and FSSD will be started



mariana wrote:Battery stops charging but the UPiS could still work with the cable power?
Or can RPI+UPiS start up when the cable power turns on?

Best regards!


hope I covered you
Warmest Regards
Pi Master
Warmest Regards
PiM
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby juiba » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:58 pm

Hello,

Just for curiosity - why UPiS doesn't charge if temperature is below 0 degrees? Is there a risk that something wicked could happen? And if temperature is below -10 C does UPiS cut the power just like it does when temp is over 65 C? I'm just asking this because I have my UPiS in car's trunk and winter is coming soon (it's not so uncommon that in some days during winter temperature drops to -30 degrees), will it then just remain silent during next four months? :)

BR, Jussi
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby Pimaster » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:42 pm

juiba wrote:Hello,

Just for curiosity - why UPiS doesn't charge if temperature is below 0 degrees? Is there a risk that something wicked could happen? And if temperature is below -10 C does UPiS cut the power just like it does when temp is over 65 C? I'm just asking this because I have my UPiS in car's trunk and winter is coming soon (it's not so uncommon that in some days during winter temperature drops to -30 degrees), will it then just remain silent during next four months? :)

BR, Jussi



Hi,

Sorry I missed your post.

You do not know if you can use LiPO batteries in such low temperatures. The specs report -20 degs. and charging below 0, is not allowed. But, the problem in such low temperatures is not the UPiS, the whole system environment conditions. Please remember that RPi and UPiS has been designed to be working on a normal temperature environment, -30 is a hard industrial if not military conditions. What about humidity, resistors, capacitors etc.
-15 degs will cause FSSD activation.

Hope I answered,

Please do not hesitate to ask what ever you need again
Warmest Regards
Pi Master
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PiM
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby juiba » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:16 pm

Hi again,

We've had now couple of days temperatures from -15C to -20C. UPiS has been working fine for whole time and keeps charging normally. Of course UPiS is located in the trunk where temperature might not drop so low and will rise quite fast.

However, I still wanted to check couple of things today when the temperature was at -20C. I keep logging things such as current amps, battery/input/usb/ext voltage and operating temperature each minute using upis_i2c (temperature with parameter -c). I checked the logs and this is what I'm seeing there:

Dec 29 19:41:47 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 69C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.67V (input) 4.78V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:42:02 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 70C 702mA 4.11V (batt) 4.67V (input) 4.78V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:43:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 71C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.64V (input) 4.76V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:44:02 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 73C 713mA 4.11V (batt) 4.64V (input) 4.76V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:45:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 74C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.61V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:46:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 76C 713mA 4.11V (batt) 4.61V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:47:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 78C 725mA 4.11V (batt) 4.58V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:48:02 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 0C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.58V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:49:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 0C 725mA 4.11V (batt) 4.58V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:50:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 2C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.58V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 19:51:02 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 3C 719mA 4.11V (batt) 4.58V (input) 4.73V (usb) 0.4V (ext)

As you can see from the logs UPiS is drawing power from USB all the time (also the charging led was on when I started my car). The temperature reported in the logs rises from 69C to 78C and then to 0C and up.

From these logs I would suspect that temperatures below 0C are not reported correctly. I also think that UPiS is not functioning as expected as charging is not disabled when temperature drops below 0C. In addition to this I was able to find following low temps from the morning:

Dec 29 07:12:56 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 64C 538mA 4.16V (batt) 4.81V (input) 4.9V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 07:13:02 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 64C 521mA 4.16V (batt) 4.81V (input) 4.9V (usb) 0.4V (ext)
Dec 29 07:14:01 raspberrypi logger: UPiS USB Power [USB] 67C 549mA 4.16V (batt) 4.81V (input) 4.9V (usb) 0.4V (ext)

So if 79C translates to -1C, then 64C would mean -16C. Apparently FSSD was not activated in this temperature as UPiS was still running happily after that.

I would be happy to help you with additional testing in real life simulator, but unfortunately weather report says that tomorrow we're back at about 0C at least for few days. Maybe you should place your UPiS in the freezer and test if you can reproduce this issue. :) I would be also interested if UPiS works correctly with high temperatures as these are likely more dangerous for the battery (and for surrounding environment).

BR, Jussi
juiba
 
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby juiba » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:06 pm

Any comments? We're back at -16 so I unplugged UPiS just for safety precautions.
juiba
 
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby Pimaster » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:43 pm

Hi,
I will comment it tomorrow. No, working in very depth in the firmware
The general rule is that UPiS has been designed to be working in normal temperatures. Temperatures below 0 are industrial
I will be able to answer in details tomorrow.

My Warmest Regards
Pi Master
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby juiba » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:28 pm

I know that you're busy with new products, but just a reminder that this issue is still open and I'm curious if UPiS is working correctly with high or low temperatures. I understand that low temperatures are not a problem for instance in Greece, but I'm sure that other users might have this same concern as well, at least if they are stupid enough to live here cold upnorth. ;)
juiba
 
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Re: What happens if over 60 Celsius degrees?

Postby juiba » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:42 pm

Just to be safe than sorry I implemented extra protection based on PI's own temp sensor. It forces charger off (@CHGR OFF) when temperature is over 55C or under 0C and reactivates it when temperature is back under 50C or over 5C. In addition it starts FSSD (@SDWN 1 O) when temp goes over 65C or below -20C. That's fine for now in the winter, but as PI's sensor is below UPiS it shows always a bit higher temperatures so most likely it wont work nicely during summer time.

Waiting still for your confirmation to the orig issue when you have more time. :)
juiba
 
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